Sunday, November 11, 2007
Deaf Ignoring Hearing People At Deaf Events - Why ASL Fading
Richard highlights another reason ASL could be fading is that deaf people are not showing up to meet the hearing people at the deaf chat events. Also they're also ignoring the signing students at the deaf events too like the Block at Orange last night. This could be another theory why ASL is fading.
Richard
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ASL teachers need to instruct their hearing students on how to approach deaf persons in a *deaf social setting*. Speaking for myself, when I go out to a place like Starbucks, it is for socializing with my own kind. Deaf on Deaf. Hearing people can be a nuisance at these times, we all know that. "How do you say ____"? "Be patient with me". Many of them have poor eye contact, which should be the first thing taught!
ReplyDeleteI get tired of hearing, "How do you SIGN ----------"?. There is nothing wrong with fingerspelling!
Also hearing students of ASL need to understand that not everyone signs exactly the same. They need to be aware of the different dialects, etc. Many of them reply with the fact that "so and so" told them differently.
I feel that if the instructors prepare their students properly, these students will not be such a pain in the posterior.
Just my two cents. Thanks for listening.
Lantana
Lantana
Gimme break!
ReplyDeleteI have no problem with hearing person who want to learn ASL and I did chat with the ASL learning to take a class ASL .. Whatever..
I dont think everyone understand of your message that It will be ASL fading. I told someone in blogger that I hope it is not fading of ASL. I believe I blame on CI by doctor and the doctor want $$$$$ for CI. So the doctor were not recommened the deaf child of their parents were mislead to not use ASL and improve the child's hearing. I blame medcial insurance and doctor number one.. ASL .. We are worry about the ASL fading. Because of Doctor or did not learn about CI and ignorance about hearing person. The parent think CI is will improved.
My answer is NO!!!!
I don't know if your message is correct? I think the reason why ASL face.
1) Blame doctor for education on the hearing parent of one or more child(s)
2) Blame Medical Insurance encouraged to kids to CI.
3) Blame for discourage deaf child(s)for not learing ASL as they are oralism.
4) Blame Governement for cutting deaf school and make a new idea for deaf student to go to public school with intepreter. It is lack of enough interpreter in anywhere.
5) WE, (Deaf community) need educating to Doctor and school and other many things. We need educating them about deaf culture should preserved for their own ASL language!
6) Why Medical insurance refused to pay for deaf need to wear hearing aid. Encourage CI. the medical insurance can pay CI.. Why not hearing aid(s)?
It is not make sense to me. It is screwed up the world! Not deaf community fault!
I have had that experience...I suppose I'm considered "hard-of-hearing" because I lipread and have cochlear implants. I went to a Deaf picnic and never felt so out of place in my life :( The only people that spoke to me at all were a few other hard-of-hearing adults. I attempted to make contact with some of the Deaf signers but was basically ignored. I'm sure it's not that way everywhere...or perhaps I'm naive...but that was my experience here in Nashville.
ReplyDeleteAll the same, I still want to learn sign...I think it would open doors of communication between myself and groups of people that I cannot currently communicate with. I am making it a goal to learn as much sign as I can between now and June, when I go to the next HLAA convention :)
I love your site, it's always interesting and informative, and your videos are beautiful to watch...ASL is a gorgeous language :)
Richard,
ReplyDeleteIn your vlog, you seem to make a point, but after your vlog presentation, you were staring at your camera for like 5 long seconds as if you are looking at the ASL users with your boiling anger and rage. It appears to me that you want to "zap" back at the Deaf ASL users as if you want to revenge them by telling them that ASL is fading and want so bad to have the last laugh. Is that how you are feeling toward the Deaf users at this point? Correct me if I am wrong.
Puzzled and just wondering....
sigh..
ReplyDeleteits a DEAF EVENT
not a social with hearing people come over to poke and prod us finger spelling 'hi' to us
its a DEAF EVENT, god damn it - its for us, its for the deaf people - hearing people, ASL students should just freaking stay out, or come in and dont intrude, socialize, earn your stay.
I can understand why deafies are this way at deaf events where ASL students congregate to get their "20 points" requirement. Deaf events are when Deafies can finally be able to converse without barriers. In thier own language.
ReplyDeleteI would put the blame on ASL instructors who require thier level 1 and 2 students to go and engage in a conversation with a deaf person at Deaf coffee or Deaf pizza . ITP or Deaf studies students, sure, why not. They should have reached mastery in interpersonal communication using ASL. Fine, require them, but Level 1 or 2 students? A big no way!
BTW, Richard . . . i know you are liked and depised by the Deaf community. I want to comment on how clear your signing is. You would be a great DHH teacher in a mainstreamed program. Very cvlear and well paced CASe signing. Easy on the eyes.
From a Deaf of Deaf.
I'm not looking to have the last laugh. I'm just giving them their possibly last golden opportunities to change the wind thats blowing over them. If they take these opportunities as insult then that's not my problem.
ReplyDeleteRichard
Lantana,
ReplyDeleteASL is confusing when so many signs look alike and mean different things. Then throw in that you can sign the same thing different ways. This is why it takes seven years or so to become fluent. A teacher cant' teach everything. Learning to sign takes practice with many, many signers because everyone has their own style and like you said there are regional differences.
The other night-- at that Deaf chat? I asked a 1st year student where he was from? He signed "vagina." I swear this is true!! I'm still laughing about this. I told him I didn't understand. So he fingerspelled Japan. I looked up Japan in my dictionary tonight. I now see where he went wrong. hahaha! And that's an example of the third problem-- just one small mistake can have a disastrous result.
I don't think ASL will fade. The Deaf need to market it though. You will need to become really open to the oral deaf and late-deaf and others who are interested.
CSDF and CSDR are booming fast right now. There are many mainstreaming schoos are being closed and dumping the oral/SEE/ci/TC/CASE/MCE/cuer/ASL to the state schools to save money and build a stronger ASL community! Yeah! Hooray! Talk to supt. Klopping and Mal! The golden opportunity to boom this century.
ReplyDeleteMal Grossinger isnt saying CSDR is booming. Not what he said in the article. What he said is the other way.
ReplyDeleteRichard
Did you ask the personnel at CSDR? They will be gladly helping you and the fact that ASL is booming in Riverside area. You need to go there and check. They have a sense of community to recognize the growth of population. ASL is there to stay...thanks to the communities bringing together. You need visit CSDR and ask them for help.
ReplyDeletewhat's your point about ASL being fading??
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeletesigh..
its a DEAF EVENT
not a social with hearing people come over to poke and prod us finger spelling 'hi' to us
its a DEAF EVENT, god damn it - its for us, its for the deaf people - hearing people, ASL students should just freaking stay out, or come in and dont intrude, socialize, earn your stay.
2:18 PM, November 11, 2007
Above is what I copied and pasted..
I agree and disagree with Richard. Number 1. Agree:
There are a lot of Deaf people who have done these.. and that goes to show what this person just typed in sticks a knife in a lot of deaf people's back. Let me elaborate, Fot those deaf people who have included hearing people in their lives and helped those eager hearing in learning.. "its a DEAF EVENT".. ok.. so you are saying.. once something's labeled DEAF, or a gathering that has more than 4 deaf people.. no one who is NOT deaf is allowed? what if someone's married to a hearing person, or has a hearing child, or a coda.. they're not allowed? Or, what if this deaf person wants to bring their friends to expose them to the deaf world, but we can't bring them in because they're not deaf? I am married to a hearing man, and I have brought him to several deaf events and I have not heard that comment before .. "deaf event.. its for us.. hearing people leave us alone".. which makes me wonder..
hmm.. so.. if hearing people have HEARING EVENT.. and they say "no deaf people are allowed only hearing people..".. then this is where censoring happens. We bitch about how we are not involved enough in a lot of different ways, and we bitch about us not getting the same rights, same opportunity as HEARING.. and here you go, we have these "sticklers" who says such things as "its a deaf event.. quit bugging us" and so forth.. and now while I'm typing this..
I'm beginning to realize why there are so much obstacles for those deaf people, why there are so much censoring, name callings, mistunderstandings, hyprocrites, and so forth about the deaf culture, and the needs for ASL because we have people like this anonymous person left behind.
Number 2. Disagree:
Richard, one thing I disagree with you on your vlog is ASL fading.. the answer will be above.. ASL is not fading.. it is not displayed enough out there, and there are a lot of people uneducated about ASL.. unfortunately because of these "sticklers" who just enjoys kicking hearing people in the behind and saying fend for yourself.. go bug someone else..
my advice? heed those deaf people..
So there's people on this blogworld so wish to exclude themselves fromthe rest of the world.
ReplyDeleteGive and take 3 years. You'll all be begging the hearies to help you keep ASL alive.
Richard
Hey (for the second time) it was SeekGeo who started that thread about ASL dying.
ReplyDeleteI am with hearing people a great deal, and when I go to a deaf event, I do not want to be doing the ASL teacher's job. ASL teachers need to find another scapegoat other than deaf social events.
Lantana
Hi all,
ReplyDeleteI am a hearing person and I am just beginning my ASL studies and so on... It really is difficult to go somewhere where there are many many deaf people when you have such a limited and basic vocab. It is very intimidating for me. I want to learn so badly and i have nothing but respect for your culture and language. I dont think its fair that even though I an devoting my life and allmy spare time to learning your ways and language that I should be cast out or ignored because Im different or "bugging you". I try so hard everyday to do my best and take in all that I can. Its just so hard when you feel unwanted. I jsut thought I should let you know considering im sure some of you know the feeling. Thanks for reading this.
Sarah B.
'Just my opinion, but hanging around Starbucks' isn't my idea of how to learn ASL. When deafies are in a social situation "hob knobbing" with their friends, they are not in "teaching" mode, they are there to have a good time and play catchup.
ReplyDeleteTry bowling. Pick a league that has some deaf teams in it. This way you all have something in common, a love of bowling.
Sarah, what is your interest in wanting to befriend the deaf? Deaf people can smell a "do-gooder" a mile away and keep a mile between them. It all depends on your goal and why you are interested. We donot need"help",just undestanding.
I have noticed the last few years that checkers in grocery stores, etc. are learning ASL basics to help US feel comfortable in a hearing dominated situation, and I admire that. They do not go out of their way, they are not being goody-goody,they are merely making our world a little nicer.
KW, in my lifetime I have been exposed to so many ASL trials it would make your head swim. Our school required staff to attend "Total Communication" classes and the only thing those classes did was confuse everyone more. Now you see such a huge,messed up cocktail that it is almost embarassing. Vagina for Virginia is only the tip of the iceberg. Speaking for myself I refuse to use the "new" country signs because that is not *my* original ASL. Japanese, Chinese, etc are still up around the eyes for me and there my Asian signs will stay.
Lantana
I can see both sides of this discussion, I am hard of hearing and I have had a speach inpediment since childhood, and even though I "live" in the hearing world, I've never felt like I belong. As I have gotten older the little bit of hearing that I do have (and rely on) is degrading, rather than get an implant I started taking ASL classes and as a result attending deaf events.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the person above who stated teachers should tell students proper manners for attending an event. I am starting ASL 3 soon and I remember the nevousness of attending deaf events as an ASL 1 and 2 student.. I remember thinking " what do I do? Who do I talk to? I can't just walk up and interupt someones conversation, I can't just stare at someone elses conversation..." I felt like an outsider, I didn't fit in with the hearing and I didn't know enough to communicate at deaf events.
In the End I decided to go to "spectator" deaf events, plays, poetry readings, even puppet shows and I was able to learn signs, observe body language and social queues and when I finally did go to a Deaf Social I felt confident that I was communicating in ASL and using proper sentance stucture and other people could understand me.
I think it is interesting that any other language class focuses on culture for the first several classes but ASL classes ( in my experience) don't. If you want to learn about the culture you have to sign up for a differnt class, I think if culture where thought before anything else everyone would benefit.
Catherine K.
Everyone needs to stop blaming people. If people deaf and hearing alike worked together to understand and be patient with one another we could preserve and spread the use and knowledge of ASL.
ReplyDeleteI'm deaf, raised oral, and just learned how to sign. Before, I was not accepted by the Deaf community because I talk. It discouraged me to get involved or learn ASL. I got over it, and fell in love with deaf culture and ASL. Lets face it, there will always be some Deaf people and some hearing people that are rude, hurtful and closed minded.
Those of you who want to help, or make a difference, be patient and kind to everyone hearing or Deaf, whether they're fluent in ASL or not.
Who can say they don't appreciate welcome arms?
It's alot more complicated than you realize. "Being nice" invites many hypocrites and people who are unpopular in their own circles try to adopt deaf culture. Sigh. It helps to stick to a subject you know well.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments. They are politely noted.
Lantana
"Proper sentence structure" is NOT ASL!
ReplyDeleteIf you want to do ASL like a hearing person does it, fine, but it is NOT ASL!
all people saying hearing people are a nusance at your community events should know that most hearing asl students only go to those events because they are assigned to. it is very intimidating to try to strike up a conversation with a deaf person when you hardly know any asl..so maybe like give us asl students a break.
ReplyDeleteI hope you know that you're shunning your future interpreters at these events. We only learn from the best (you guys) and if you constrict our learning that only hinders you in the end.
ReplyDeleteI am hearing, and I want to be involved in the deaf community. I understand everyone's point of view... But sometimes people don't try to look at what others are trying to say.
ReplyDeleteDeaf events are NOT classes, it's a place to socialize... Hearing people shoul not be discriminatedaginst, especially for trying so hard, but the hearing need to understand that deaf events are not a place to learn ASL. Maybe if the hearing want so badly to learn they can hire a tutor.
I went to the block a few weeks ago, it was my first deaf event, but I just observed. I learned a little bit, met some really nice people, but tried to just watch and really take in the beauty of this language. I am currently hearing, but my hearing is getting bad. It's not so bad where I am considered hard of hearing, but with prior ear surgery and progressive hearing loss, I am at risk for losing hearin all together.
By learning about the deaf culture, I have really grown to admire their "frankess" in th hearin world we "sugarcoat" things, but the deaf tell it like it is! That is something I respect. I also really like how they deaf don't feel they are deficient and don't need help. Because they don't. I can u understand that someone doesn't want to feel like a charity case. At first when I thought abou possibly goin deaf, I was scared and almost in a state of pity, but after seeing the pride in the deaf community and the fact that they are as successful if not more than most hearing people, I grew to really love the culture.
I am still learning and I barely know ASL. But you may come across me sometime... I'll be the hearing person who won't try and bother people :-) I won't say much, becuse I don't know much. But I'll hang out with my deaf friend and slowly learn by observation.
I hope that more hearing people learn how their actions can really annoy or interrupt a deaf persons life, when they are just trying to relax and socialize. But I also hope that more deaf people can understand that there are hearing people like myself who really have a desire to be part of their world and not annoy them. Someone who has good intentions and don't want to change their way of life, just understand it.
It's been awhile since I re-read this thread, thanks to Jillian I did a little catchup.
ReplyDeleteThe hearing folks who responded here -- their posts appear to be mostly about THEMSELVES. "Me, myself, and I". Try leaving yourself out of your missive. ASL is not a hobby. It is a means of communication that the deaf use in order to have some social networking. In all the years I went to the old "Deaf Clubs" I never once saw a hearing person there. Perhaps a CODA or two, but they never stayed long.
In order to be a successful ASL interpreter, you either need to be a CODA or have a true talent. Your "learnin" isn't going to come from hanging around Starbucks.
After reading all these comments, i no longer want to be an interpreter. Why bother? I will just be pushed aside or criticized by the Deaf community...
ReplyDeleteHello Everyone,
ReplyDeleteThis is my first time on this blog and it is disgusting.
It doesn't matter if you are deaf or hearing. Its about meeting new people and making new friends. What is this High school who's popular and who's the losers. I don't think so. God created as individual. To love each other as thy neighbor. I have hearing friends and deaf friends. I accept everyone that accepts me.
ASL learners are not try to get in your space they are trying to get to know the language and have lots of respect if they didn't they wouldn't care to have taken the class. Example: Tutors are hearing but deaf people need them to translate to hearing. Do you hate your tutor? They are helping you.
So everyone need to take a chill pill and get along and stop discriminating. This is sad. What would our God say if he saw you act this way, REALLY!
Love each other, accept, caring, peace.
After reading some of these posts, I was really disappointed. It's true that some students need to go to these events for points, but others really want to connect with the Deaf community. What is wrong with that? Why would the Deaf community throw away the opportunity to educate hearing people? When you educate them, they tell their friends, and that's how people start to change. You can only learn so much in the class room. You have to be patient with people or you will turn them off from wanting to connect with you. You lose respect and tolerance for your culture.. no matter what culture that is. I don't understand why people with different languages and cultures are segregating themselves, especially these days! The fact of the matter is, we are all Americans and we need to start being more understanding with each other, and we need to start treating each other with more respect.
ReplyDeleteI think that this is a great discussion. I was talking to my mom about this and she said a similiar situation popped up to her in college. She wanted to do a protest where black students they took over a building at a school. It was an all black protest. Many white supporters of African Americans wanted to help. But the black people said politely no. She told me a good piece of advice for all friends/allies of minorities. "A friend can easily become a enemy if they don't step back and let the minority take care of their own people sometimes." I think this a good advice. if the vent is strictly for deaf people why not respect that? I am a black woman I would be sorta frustrated if there was a women of color conference and people didn't respect that.
ReplyDelete-- Tina
(Hearing)
Wow, what an amazing information!! Thanks so much.
ReplyDelete